Italo-norman Knight?

[frater sinister]

Actually I'm working on my XII century (1170-1187) Brother Knight Hospitaller (you can see it in my presentation: http://guerriers-du-moyen-age.aceboard. ... -Italy.htm )
However I'm looking to create a XII Century (always 1170-1187) Italo-Norman Knight too. It will be fine for reenact a Brabantine in the Battle of Malemort, or in events where I could not use my hospitaller.
Most of the items I have yet bought for my hospitaller are just fine for the italo-norman knight too.
Later, I think I will buy a lamellar armor too...
I'm very impressed from the work of Laurent (from fiefetchevalerie) http://www.fiefetchevalerie.com/fief/?2 ... rmand-1186
This civil outfit from Dunkeljorm (from Compagnia d'Arme Stratos), an italian reenactor, is interesting too: http://www.villaggiomedievale.com/forum ... hichpage=1
I think I will use a long tunic, but I must still see what type of decoration and colour should be fine.
If you have some suggestions, links to iconographic sources or more, please inform me about. Thanks.

[Gildwin]

Really good link with Laurent's work !
You can find some infos here :
http://www.norman-world.com/
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/sedlouviers ... rmands.htm
Sorry but most of texts are in French.
I'm working on a XIth century Italo Norman who fought in Italy & in Spain near Barcelona

[frater sinister]

Thanks
The first website could be read in italian language too.
However I do not find any iconograhic sources about italo-norman with civil or military outfit

Here you can see some links about italian groups than include italo-normans:
http://www.cavalieriterretarentine.it/ (this group include some byzantines too)
http://www.stratosbari.it/
http://www.historiabari.eu/

I'm looking to buy this shield (made from an italian reenactor group). What do you think?

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/9947/p1040507pb0.jpg
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/1254/p1040508dq9.jpg
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/27/p1040509qk4.jpg
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/6672/p1040510mn3.jpg

[ivan]

La forma puo' anche andare, pero' il disegno è un po' troppo "fine XI°/inizio XII°". Lo scudo di Laurent, se vuoi fare un personnaggio verso il 1180, sarebbe perfetto. Pero' per un Ospitaliere potrebbe anche andare, essendo più semplice. Dovresti vedere se ci sono iconografie con Ospitalieri che mostrano lo scudo.

[frater sinister]

Salve Ivan,
quando intendi il "disegno" ti riferisci al motivo bianco e nero dello scudo? Tale motivo è indicativo, lo scudo che verrebbe commissionato per il sottoscritto ne avrebbe uno differente (sfondo nero con croce greca bianca sopra l'umbone).

[ivan]

Si volevo dire il motivo bianco e nero. Magari passi a vederci a Marles 2009, dove il tema sarà proprio le Crociate...

[frater sinister]

Marles 2009? Puoi fornirmi un link di riferimento?

[snorri]

Frater SINISTER a dit : Marles 2009? Puoi fornirmi un link di riferimento?

http://www.museedestempsbarbares.fr/

[frater sinister]

Thanks for the link.
I see than will be an event in the 2009, however It will be only about the XV century? Ivan said should be an event about the XII century (the crusade, so my hospitaller should be perfect).

[Pierre de Mirmande]

Salve,
Have you got any source about this kind of hospitaller shield (black with a white cross) or is it just only the reproduction of the Osprey's one ?

[brusledoictz]

Frater SINISTER: the event will cover the 1000 years of the middle ages (5th to 15th century.)

[frater sinister]

Pierre de Mirmande a dit : Salve,
Have you got any source about this kind of hospitaller shield (black with a white cross) or is it just only the reproduction of the Osprey's one ?

Actually I have only found this iconicographic source from the XIII century (It was in an old topic of this forum too):


But I'm not sure they are hospitallers (and from the beginning of the XIII century the cross was different too). So I must admit than I'm looking to the osprey shield example (I know than Osprey pictures aren't always a philological source)... I know than the "Guerriers du Moyen-Age" group prefer a white latin cross on a red back (like the flag of the order)... If you have better resources they will be welcome
Most of my informations comes from the researches of "Per Braz" (I sent him some mails too, for suggestion). He said to me than is little know about hospitaller from the XII century. There are poor iconograhic sources, most of them only about civil outfit of the Hospitallers...

Well... if only I selected an Hospitaller from the XV century In this century there a lot of interesting iconographic sources, with armed hospitaller...

Brûle-Doigts a dit : Frater SINISTER: the event will cover the 1000 years of the middle ages (5th to 15th century.)

Thanks, now it is clear

[Pierre de Mirmande]

Grazie Frater,
Yes I ever saw this pic but where does it come from exactly ?
Sorry, I haven't better resources but only hypothesis...
I like the idea of Isarn to use the flag's design for the sergeant's shield. For me, maybe the knights used their own shields... It's only a supposition.

[Gildwin]

Frater SINISTER a dit : Thanks
The first website could be read in italian language too.
However I do not find any iconograhic sources about italo-norman with civil or military outfit

Sorry you will find only accessories and several items like knives, arrow heads, horseshoes...
This book is interesting : http://www.priceminister.com/offer/buy/ ... Livre.html

[frater sinister]

Actually I bought "The normans, Warrior Knights and their Castles":
http://www.essentialnormanconquest.com/ ... 0889AL.jpg
and I'm thinking of buying this book too "La conquista Normanna di Taranto" (The Norman Conquest of Taranto):
http://www.cavalieriterretarentine.it/libro.jpg