Galon monochrome à motifs

[Hermelind]

Ah ben moi j'avais commencé en argent sur du coton, et Miss Perline m'a conseillé de doubler mon argent... Tout de suite mieux

[cassetrogne]

Corwinna fram Gyruum a dit : Ah ben moi j'avais commencé en argent sur du coton, et Miss Perline m'a conseillé de doubler mon argent... Tout de suite mieux

Et elle ne t'a pas proposé en plus de mettre une pièce d'or dans la paume de ta main ?

[Hermelind]

Non, mais Tatie m'a dit de ne pas mettre mon argent à la banque... Peut être que je devrais mettre mon galon chez ma tante ???

[yrmegard_]

Greetings! I'm sorry to interfere in English but my French is unfortunately too poor to say what I'm going to say.

The picture perlinelatisserande showed in the last post on the first page of this topic comes from my blog (that is in Estonian ;-) ) and it seems that it has been misunderstood, so I feel I need to explain a bit. The patterns shown are drawn (not by me) from Latvian medieval finds and the drawing is not accurate in showing the technique, only patterns themselves. Those patterns were not woven in double-face nor brocaded, those were woven using two threads of different color per every pattern tablet. I would gladly explain further if needed. :-)

[la louvette]

Welcome Yrmegard!!! [img]kator/smiley41.gif[/img]

[boipatou]

bonjour est ce que l'on pourrais avoir une VO sous titrée car je ne cause que le troll scolaire et c'est déjà loin. svp

[perlinelatisserande]

Welcome Yrmegard.
I have a very bad english but I understand well.
When you say "those were woven using two threads of of different color per every pattern tablet" what do you mean? For me it's définition of doubleface so if it isn't, what would it be?

Do you mean it's this? http://www.yrmegard.pri.ee/ru/tablets/p ... rn_02.html

Oh yes, I began to understand you mean it's a missed hole technique with two hole missed?



Oh I have an idee what you think of doing a lexicon english-estonian with words like : tabletweaving, pattern...

[boipatou]

ben je commence a tisser car j'aime bien découvrir de nouvelles choses je suis à peine débutant et j'essaie de comprendre. Pour l'instant j'essaye de filer du chanvre pour en faire des cordes mais tout m'interesse

[perlinelatisserande]

Bah je dirais... attend un peu qu'on ai bien compris ce qu'explique la demoiselle et on fera une traduc.
Mais en gros elle dit que ce que je dis dans mon dernier message de la page 1 n'est pas bon et elle tente de nous expliquer ce que c'est.
Maintenant, je n'irais pas traduire si je ne suis pas sure de ce que j'ai compris. c'est le sens de mon message, lui demander des précisions et lui demander si j'ai bien compris.

Après boipatou, si tu tisses pas, je pense que même en français ça restera du chinois, car il y a des termes qu'on ne traduit pas.

Ah si elle dit aussi que son site c'est de l'estonien et je lui demande un lexique anglais estonien sur les termes de tissage

[yrmegard_]

perlinelatisserande a dit : Welcome Yrmegard.
I have a very bad english but I understand well.

My French is much worse than your English. ;-) I suppose it is better that some of you native speakers can translate what I'm saying to others than me using some automatic translation service.

When you say "those were woven using two threads of of different color per every pattern tablet" what do you mean? For me it's définition of doubleface so if it isn't, what would it be?

Classical double-face technique (also called "double-face double turn") uses 4 threads of two different colors per each pattern tablet and tablets do not idle between picks (meaning that all of the tablets are always turned in either direction). The technique I'm talking about is often called "two-hole weave". Pattern tablets carry only two threads per each tablet and tablet idles for as long as the color on the pattern does not change.

Do you mean it's this? http://www.yrmegard.pri.ee/ru/tablets/p ... rn_02.html

Yes, exactly. This is the pattern from Estonian Virunuka find woven in two-hole weave.

Oh yes, I began to understand you mean it's a missed hole technique with two hole missed?

You can say so, yes. Only it does not create surface effect as missed-hole technique and the surface remains smooth.

Oh I have an idee what you think of doing a lexicon english-estonian with words like : tabletweaving, pattern...

I'd rather translate any page from my Estonian website that you will find interesting as there are hardly any other Estonian tablet weaving materials online. :-) And there is also Russian version of my site available (e.g. you can find pattern library here http://www.yrmegard.pri.ee/ru/tablets/patterns/ ), there's much more there than in Estonian version.

[yrwanel]

hello, Yrmegard!
And thank you for your intervention!

If you can translate the weaving words estonian => englich, I can tranlate in french ( I know more the weaving words in english than french because the most of books are in english!)...
If you have problem, you can ask me: I'm, (in the "normal live" weaver.

A good idea too: links to website in estonian of russian artefacts, if you please, all periods....
Here, if you ask, we can give you links to french or english website (ans spanish, when Luis is coming)

tradu:
Bonjour Yrmegard, et merci de ton intervention.
Si tu peux traduire le vocabulaire tisserand de l'estonien (ou russe) en anglais, je peux traduire en français. (je connais mieux le vocabulaire anglais que français: la majorité des livres de tissage sont en anglais). Si tu as des problèmes en tissage, tu me demandes, je suis tisserande "dans le civil";

Une bonne idée: nous donner des liens avec des sites estoniens ou russes, d'artefacts, svp, et toutes "périodes".
Ici, si tu nous demandes, nous pouvons te donner des liens français, anglais, ou espagnol (si Luis passe par ici)

[yrmegard_]

Coprolithe de Bonne Atoufer a dit : If you can translate the weaving words estonian => englich, I can tranlate in french ( I know more the weaving words in english than french because the most of books are in english!)...

I have the same problem knowing more terms in English than in Estonian or Russian as most of useful materials are in English.

I think we could make this small dictionary thing with the benefit for both parties. I am actually in an early stage of planning a small dictionary for my website and French terms will be a good addition to it. ;-)

I'll try to post some terms here within couple of days, but can unfortunately give no promises about timing as I am expecting my second child to be born soon. :-)

A good idea too: links to website in estonian of russian artefacts, if you please, all periods....

Now there's a problem. Not Russian nor Estonian artefacts have been published on the web. Some bits of information can be found in reports published by archeologists but those are not available online.

If you are interested, I could publish my article on Estonian tablet weaving (in English). I'm still gathering data on Russian finds.

Here, if you ask, we can give you links to french or english website (ans spanish, when Luis is coming)

French and spanish sites would be interesting, thank you. :-)

[yrwanel]

Felicitations for your second baby!

I hope all is OK you, the child, and the father

(félicitations pour ton 2ème enfant. J'espère que tout est OK, toi, l'enfant et le papa)

Artefacts, in textile, is the same problem everywhere: very poor publications on the web!
(les artefacts, en textiles, c'est le même problème partout: très peu de publications sur le web)

two "références" in books: (2 références en livres)
- Peter Collingwood: the techniques of tablet weaving; Robin & Russ handweavers.
All the different techniques of tablet weavings, and based on artefacts from differents country and times (toutes les différentes techniques en tissage à carte, basé sur artefacts de différents pays et époques)

- Ecclesiastical Pomp & aristocratic circumstance: a thousand years of brocaded tabletwoven bands; Nancy Spies - Arelate Sudio
You have all a study of brocaded tablet weaving, the usefull, material, patterns on artefacts....
(tu as toute l'étude sur les tissages à carte brochés, leur utilisation, les matières, les patrons sur artefacts....)

AND.......
Anna Neuper's book; Nancy Spies, Arelate studio;

The "traduction" in our "codes" from a book (early XVIème) wrote by a very old woman in a german monastery: all the patterns who was made in this periode, and this place.
(la "traduction" dans nos "codes" d'un livre début XVIème écrit par une très vieille moniale allemande: tous les modèles faits à cette période et à cet endroit)

[yrmegard_]

Coprolithe de Bonne Atoufer a dit : Felicitations for your second baby!

Thanks, but we are still waiting. :-)

two "références" in books: (2 références en livres)

I have all three of them on my bookshelf and read several time. ;-) I'm not a novice in tablet weaving and have at least seen most of publications in English. Publication in other languages are yet to be discovered, so references for French texts would be very much appreciated. ;-)

And here comes the first part of our dictionary. Terms are given in English, then Estonian, then Russian. Let me know if anyone is interested in any word in particular.

tablet weaving - kõladega kudumine - ткачество на дощечках
pattern - muster - узор
beater - mõõk - меч
loom - kudumisraam - рама, станок
shed - vahelik - зев
shuttle - süstik - челнок
warp - lõimelõngad - основа (нити основы)
weft - koelõng - уток (нить утка)
brocade - brokaat - браная техника
doubleface (double turn) - kahepoolne tehnika - двухсторонняя техника
threaded-in - ülespandud muster - заправленный узор

[yrwanel]

french books on weaving....and cards weaving: none!

The one who'd existing: finish! and it was a traduction of one in english.

tablet weaving - kõladega kudumine - ткачество на дощечках - tissage à carte

pattern - muster - узор - mise en carte (also for weaving loom generally), patron

loom - kudumisraam - рама, станок - métier à tisser

brocade - brokaat - браная техника - broché

doubleface (double turn) - kahepoolne tehnika - двухсторонняя техника - double face

The other words: I know what is it, but not the "good" name in french...
(to morrow, I'll see in a "special dictionnary")